Comments on: Religion as Delusion? http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/ Like a fortune cookie, only without the fortune, and not a cookie. Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:10:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6 By: Matthew Schinckel http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1291 Matthew Schinckel Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:48:23 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1291 Well, none of the libraries I frequent have it, I might see if my local bookshops have it... Well, none of the libraries I frequent have it, I might see if my local bookshops have it…

]]> By: Matthew Schinckel http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1290 Matthew Schinckel Tue, 25 Jul 2006 23:43:38 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1290 Sounds good. I might have to see if any libraries I am members of have any copies. We might be able to compare what we interpret from it. Sounds good. I might have to see if any libraries I am members of have any copies. We might be able to compare what we interpret from it.

]]> By: Pope http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1289 Pope Tue, 25 Jul 2006 20:05:13 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1289 I ordered the book, the God Delusion, seems will be out next october. I can make some comments in your blog, as a review if your're interested. Anyway the thread in the Brights site is still there. In spite of that silly name it is a great forum... might end calling myself a Bright :) I ordered the book, the God Delusion, seems will be out next october. I can make some comments in your blog, as a review if your’re interested. Anyway the thread in the Brights site is still there. In spite of that silly name it is a great forum… might end calling myself a Bright :)

]]> By: Pope http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1247 Pope Tue, 20 Jun 2006 14:31:10 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1247 I agree with you observation, religion wants to find its way back to politics, and we are being too shy about it. That's the reason why the Opus Dei is the favorite pet of the Vatican. I'm sure you know Richard Dawkins's book, "the god delusion", will be soon in the market, kind of a saga on his delusion hypothesis in "the root of all evil" documental. I posted a topic in http://www.the-brights.net/ ( I'm not a bright) called "In defense of Richard Dawkins hypothesis". It was funny, even if Dawkins is a bright, the facilitators rejected the association implicit in the topic. It seems that members have taken distance from him because of being straightforward in his assumption that religion is a delusion. The reason behind is, I believe, that the bright movement has political aspirations in USA or UK. Going strong against religion can doom any project, but does that mean we should keep our mouths shut? I agree with you observation, religion wants to find its way back to politics, and we are being too shy about it. That’s the reason why the Opus Dei is the favorite pet of the Vatican.
I’m sure you know Richard Dawkins’s book, “the god delusion”, will be soon in the market, kind of a saga on his delusion hypothesis in “the root of all evil” documental. I posted a topic in http://www.the-brights.net/ ( I’m not a bright) called “In defense of Richard Dawkins hypothesis”. It was funny, even if Dawkins is a bright, the facilitators rejected the association implicit in the topic. It seems that members have taken distance from him because of being straightforward in his assumption that religion is a delusion. The reason behind is, I believe, that the bright movement has political aspirations in USA or UK. Going strong against religion can doom any project, but does that mean we should keep our mouths shut?

]]> By: Matthew Schinckel http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1246 Matthew Schinckel Tue, 20 Jun 2006 12:19:04 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1246 And I would most certainly agree that there is a fair bit of delusion happening within the fundamentalist population. It's actually quite interesting what you say about the unpopularity of making religion officially a delusion. In Australia we are starting to see a bit of a religious involvment in politics, for the first time. Parties like Family First are making their presence felt, with their small-minded attitude and fear-mongering. And we have a Prime Minister who has just done his best to make sure homosexuals aren't able to marry, even though in one state, or rather, territory, had just allowed it. And I would most certainly agree that there is a fair bit of delusion happening within the fundamentalist population.

It’s actually quite interesting what you say about the unpopularity of making religion officially a delusion. In Australia we are starting to see a bit of a religious involvment in politics, for the first time. Parties like Family First are making their presence felt, with their small-minded attitude and fear-mongering.

And we have a Prime Minister who has just done his best to make sure homosexuals aren’t able to marry, even though in one state, or rather, territory, had just allowed it.

]]> By: Pope http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1244 Pope Tue, 20 Jun 2006 02:49:24 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-1244 Religion is not admitted as a delusion in mental disorder manuals for one thing because it would be dangerously unpopular for psychology or psychiatry to do so. But in <em>DSM-IV</em> and <em>ICD-10</em> there is a diagnosis residual category that almost fills the bill: "shared psychotic disorder" or "induced delusional disorder". Bottom line statement in this diagnosis is that a delusional belief can be contagious, but only from one individual to another in a close relationship. Group shared delusions are not considered. This criteria lack internal consistency as Greg emphasized. A delusion would have to be a false belief that is strong enough as to block critical thinking process so all evidence is rejected. One way of intuitively knowing that reasoning has been frozen is when a lonely patient affirms his beliefs against the whole world. Of course it's hard to know when that actually happens in religious people, probably many are still able to doubt their beliefs if properly challenged. I would put forward the supposition that the delusional would preferably be found within the fundamentalist population. Religion is not admitted as a delusion in mental disorder manuals for one thing because it would be dangerously unpopular for psychology or psychiatry to do so. But in DSM-IV and ICD-10 there is a diagnosis residual category that almost fills the bill: “shared psychotic disorder” or “induced delusional disorder”. Bottom line statement in this diagnosis is that a delusional belief can be contagious, but only from one individual to another in a close relationship. Group shared delusions are not considered.

This criteria lack internal consistency as Greg emphasized. A delusion would have to be a false belief that is strong enough as to block critical thinking process so all evidence is rejected. One way of intuitively knowing that reasoning has been frozen is when a lonely patient affirms his beliefs against the whole world. Of course it’s hard to know when that actually happens in religious people, probably many are still able to doubt their beliefs if properly challenged. I would put forward the supposition that the delusional would preferably be found within the fundamentalist population.

]]> By: Greg http://schinckel.net/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-723 Greg Sun, 05 Feb 2006 11:22:47 +0000 http://schinckel.blogsome.com/2006/02/05/religion-as-delusion/#comment-723 Interestingly, the <a href="http://allpsych.com/disorders/dsm.html" rel="nofollow">official diagnostic manual for mental disorders</a> (which covers delusions) specifically <i>excludes</i> religious beliefs as delusions ... as long as they're appropriate for your social context. So, you can have delusions and not be crazy - as long as your delusions are shared! In other words, if you start a religion, you're a nut. If you follow one, you're fine. I wonder where they draw the line? The tenth follower? Thousandth? (It's worth noting that this piece of quackery is brought to you by the same "experts" who declared homosexuality a mental disorder up until the 70s.) Interestingly, the official diagnostic manual for mental disorders (which covers delusions) specifically excludes religious beliefs as delusions … as long as they’re appropriate for your social context.

So, you can have delusions and not be crazy - as long as your delusions are shared! In other words, if you start a religion, you’re a nut. If you follow one, you’re fine. I wonder where they draw the line? The tenth follower? Thousandth?

(It’s worth noting that this piece of quackery is brought to you by the same “experts” who declared homosexuality a mental disorder up until the 70s.)

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